I am not going to be sending an e-mail to myself in 1998 because I
am sticking to my belief that since I did not receive an e-mail from
myself in 1998, then it never happened.
I would, however, like to receive an e-mail message from myself in
the future. I would now how I would be able to prove to myself that it
was legit.
Have fun, all, and I look forward to seeing your departure, John.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-14-2001 11:19 AM
John,
I know that you don’t understand…which is sad. Its the Hawking
Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is seperate from any
other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter falling into the
singularity. It is part of the description of a singularity per se
absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking Radiation.
A simple “E=Mc^2″ isn’t the answer here. You have to form the
singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not
virtual mass. You have to get the mass for the singularity from
somewhere and if you can’t or don’t travel in space (to grab the mass
from somewhere other than Earth) then you have to be gobbling up the
planet itself.
The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves
the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it.
Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass
involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.
400 kelvin or 100 degrees C emitted as Hawking Radiation from the
singularity requires a mass of 3 * 10^20 kg. Lert’s assume that the
mass of the singularity is “about the mass of a large mountain”. Let’s
say that the mass of the singularity is 1/1,000,000th (5.98*10^18
kg)the mass of the Earth. The Hawking Radiation temperature around your
singularity will be approximately 20,000 degrees kelvin. The surface
temperature of the sun is about 5,600 degrees kelvin. That’s a sunburn
that you won’t forget for a while.
So, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won’t work.
Its too bad that this has occurred. People want to believe in the
future and future technology but get confused by bad science. As I’ve
said before, it doesn’t particularly bother me that you don’t really
have a time machine. Its fun to ” jus’ ‘spose” it was true. The problem
comes when people really are convinced that its true based on bad
science. In any case, there’s plenty of evidence available for people
to check on their own so they can make informed decisions and learn
what the true state of the science is. Where we are in physics today is
truly exciting without making it up.
20,000 degrees…ouch, ouch, ouch!
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 11:20 AM
John, I just want to clarify my last post: I am not looking forward
to your leaving in the sense that I want you to go, I meant it that I
am looking forward to seeing your departure from an observational
perspective. This has been an enjoyable, educational, and
thought-provoking thread.
[Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 at 11:41 AM]
Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 11:55 AM
((I know that you don’t understand…which is sad.))
Perhaps you are just having a hard time making yourself clear? I will
admit you are a little out of my ballpark but I do understand what you
are referring to.
((It’s the Hawking Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is
separate from any other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter
falling into the singularity. It is part of the description of a
singularity per se absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking
Radiation.))
Yes, that is true. If you firmly believe that Hawking radiation
cannot be controlled or goes on even without the presence of virtual
particles forever until the singularity explodes than you are correct.
((A simple “E=Mc^2″ isn’t the answer here.))
You asked where the mass comes from. I simply pointed out that mass
and energy are interchangeable in the same equation. One of my Stanford
pals tells me there is a running gag about the chances a VW Beetle
spontaneously appearing inside the accelerator. It could only come from
the transfer of energy to mass.
((You have to form the singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not virtual mass.))
That is incorrect.
((The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves
the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it.
Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass
involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.))
You seem to be quite upset and I understand your argument. I do
however think it is important to gather the facts and probabilities
before expelling emotional energy on them. Please keep in mind that I
have not shared all the technical details of the machine with you. So
an easy out would be for me to just make something up.
However, and as I’m sure you are aware, Stephen Hawking admits that
his own equations support the “possibility” that microsingularities may
not totally disappear as they evaporate in a sea of virtual particles
and in fact may leave behind a very stable naked singularity. I’m sure
you can look that up. I suppose the difficult part is believing that
we’ve taken advantage of it, not that it’s impossible.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 11:58 AM
My.
Back to my reality.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 12:47 PM
Inherently, freedom from responsibility, is not evidenced in this Universe, this is why humans are so small.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-14-2001 01:32 PM
Darby, I simply do not have time to get into details right now -
but, if you take some time to do some internet searches you will find
that not only is is POSSIBLE to create a microsingularity, it is
possibly to do so NOW with a linear accellerator. In fact, there was an
article recently (about 5-6 months ago I think, which is why I can’t
remember the exact source right now) that stated there is a distinct
probability of it happening.
I THINK if you do a search on the discovery channel, or discovery magazine, you should find this information yourself.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-14-2001 08:49 PM
speaking of time, i am on page 18 and have spent hours
contemplating, reading, going to links etc. Facinating stuff. Great
Discussion.
I do have a question or two, and please forgive me if they were addressed and I have not reached them yet.
In the years leading to the civil war in the US and ww3, when
searches are being conducted in homes, what is being searched for
specifically? I can assume weapons, but that seems too simple.
Also, John, can you elaborate on recognizing who the enemy will be
domestically? You had stated sometime back in the thread that it would
be those who had the most to lose..(paraphrasing) I may be taking this
out of context, but maybe not.
I am on the fence post, but intrigued by this topic. I cannot
obviously say you are a TT, but that is not the issue for me. I need no
proof. At the least, this discussion has been a laymans guide to
understanding Time Travel theory. At most, you are “visiting”. Either
way, Thanks
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:41 AM
Who’s going to remember this thread in the future?
Have you made a poster about something like “I am from 2036″ to jog your memory?
If these events come to pass, have you made plans about what you will do?
No need to answer me, but in a couple of years, no one may remember this thread, due to life events of the yous or you.
I find the events mentioned as incredible, I also find that most people
could look forward and describe certain events that might take place in
the future. These possibilities have always been with us.
I, myself, and I have a lot of meetings with myself, self, and I am
having another meeting with myself, dictate that the 50 me-s that are
all having meetings with myself may get confused from time to time.
This leaves 50 or more me-s in every worldline with more me-s showing
up possibly all the time.
With all of you doing all the same, then these parallel worlds are all busy with all the you-s and me-s.
We all only take up one space on the gameboard still in the world.
Further thoughts on all of these meetings may be forthcoming, soon I hope.
In the near future, I know what I have to do, due to obligations of
all the me-s that had meetings with all the other me-s, I guess.
Well, that leaves all of the me-s tied up at the moment.
Anyone else feel this way?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:48 AM
If it seems that I may be howling at the Moon, Ah~~~~~~Ow, would you might think of it as a form of March Madness?
Afterall, all of the me-s holding all of these me-s meetings may
have nothing to do, if not howling at the Moon, leaving the other me-s
to say, what a pity, that some of the me-s are howling at the Moon. I
also have to assume that all of the other world-lines are having quite
a time also with this.
I can not decide when I had the time to do all of this, though.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:03 PM
Also, one could write a paper describing this action as a Class,
perhaps even putting it in a computer, with a programming language to
describe this Class. Making a Object of the Class and referencing it,
would instansiate this Class. This would give the computer a Busy Class
Object that describes the methods, events, and properties of the Busy
Class Act.
I must be a Busy Class Object Act.
Is this part of the Future events?
Fitting at this time, I must include a Prayer:
Now, I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
And if I should die, before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:15 PM
I leave to go into the Future, moment by moment, step, by step.
What awaits me there?
There was another forum where a topic was created. Oxuma, a Brailizan, came up with this: (Give credit where credit is due).
What has someone said to you that was stupid at some time in your life?
Some of the replies given back by people who responded could be made into a sort of conversation that would go like this:
Space is big.
The idea is good, but the forum is not.
There’s grass on the lawn.
Is that all there is to talk about?
The seashore is where the sea and the shore meet.
If I taught you everything I know, you still would not know anything.
Can someone go out and get me a monkey sandwich?
The winner was given some sort of symbolic prize: The Golden Grass Award.
And the winner, was: There’s grass on the lawn.
I leave you to your thoughts.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-15-2001 01:17 PM
John,
Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion
involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is. And the energy
expelled (other than the Hawking Radiation <poke>
is intellectual. Back to the didactic…I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the
device. If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in
any case. The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs
to GE and its shareholders (of which I am one). The details that you
have posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and
patent law relative to the rights of GE in 2001. Did the Board of
Directors of today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical
drawings? (Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?)
The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE
isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak. The technical
drawing that you have posted, if it reflects a reality, has some
implications that you may not have taken into consideration. You see a
time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an x-ray emitter
with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.
X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which you
say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to
vent the x-rays – a mismatch. The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray
Venting Zone”. It details x-rays being focused and vented
directionally. It has applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD
& GE would not want any details of the system publicized.
Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 02:11 PM
EMMETT:
I too enjoy these conversations.
((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device.))
Actually, I’m hoping the cut-a-way drawing from the manual will be available to you very soon.
((If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in any case.))
…smiling… So let me get this straight, John please prove you’re a time traveler but don’t show us any copyrighted material?
((The details that you have posted publicly may actually be in
violation of copyright and patent law relative to the rights of GE in
2001.))
No, I am not breaking any of “my” laws but I suppose that’s
something else you and your worldline will have to deal with when time
travel comes.
((The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak.))
They might be now.
((You see a time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an
x-ray emitter with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.))
Yes I suppose that is one thing you could do with it. I could also
cut my hand off with a power saw or heat up a crowd of people with a
microwave. However, I believe Teller already came up with an X-ray
laser that destroys itself after going off.
((X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which
you say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to
vent the x-rays – a mismatch.))
Actually, I thought we were focusing on the degree of radiation and
temperature. I don’t believe I ever said it didn’t give off radiation.
Yes, the device does give off x-rays.
((The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray Venting Zone”. It
details x-rays being focused and vented directionally. It has
applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD & GE would not
want any details of the system publicized.))
As you said, it’s interesting that I see a time machine and you see
a weapon. Maybe it’s a sign of the “times”. However, it is a good
point. If the Chinese or Russians thought you had one of these what do
you think they would do?
Again, maybe you should ask yourself if you’re sure you want me to
prove I’m a time traveler. Maybe that’s what makes a time traveler
“evil” in that he would be willing to share everything with you. If
that were true, does J.C. have a good point after all?
Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 02:30 PM
John – This has been fascinating.
John – IF you (or other TTs), were to lose – a way to get back -
would there be a rescue team? Your story would not go over really well
here in 2000, if you were in need of assistance – probably lock you up
with the other time travelers. No, I’m sure of it. Though I understand
you have family. Are there interesting stories of TTs who have had to
wing it through tough missions? What would you do. Get a job? Freelance
engineering?
Another thing, if you were to take back a carload of shopping items, would they make it?
Sounds like your heading back soon. Did I hear that correct?
Does the “you” in the other time line, have to “absorb” you back? How do you keep from having two “yous”, back home?
Can you e-mail us from the future and tell us how we’re doing there? No, guess not.
[Edited by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 at 02:51 PM]
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 04:24 PM
Darby,
you are so funny.
“The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs to GE
and its shareholders (of which I am one). The details that you have
posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and patent
law relative to the rights of GE in 2001. Did the Board of Directors of
today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical drawings?
(Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?) The reason
that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact,
working on this device as we speak. The technical drawing that you have
..”
If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here. infact with a 2.5 divergence how do you know the
patent numbers or the device would be the same? besides as of now the
patent doesnt even exist here. technically it would not be THIS GE’s
pictures. It would not be THIS GE’s device. it belongs to another world
line. since it hasnt been invented yet how would you say he got the
pictures?? Now THAT would be an interesting case indeed. would they
have to prove him to be a time traveler? Is there known laws at this
time that states this as a criminal offense to share technology from
other world lines? what if it is NOT an offense in John’s world?
The Burden of proof would fall on YOU, not on John.
…..Wouldnt want THAT case! Would any lawyer actually TAKE that case???
hehehhmmm…noticed Doc’s board is down again…
-pamela
[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 at 04:51 PM]
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-15-2001 08:47 PM
Just to change the subject for a minute; doesn’t it seem strange
that this board has been hit so much? I checked and most don’t get over
500 or so. (this one over 19,000!!!)This has had more than any other.
The only other ones that come close are two discussions about c2c
guests. What do you think of that, if anything?
Lola
Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 09:33 PM
((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here.))
Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue
that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public
domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-15-2001 09:41 PM
LOLA: Hi, I agree that it is amazing how many views have been done
on this discussion. Well, maybe not. It is a topic that does not itself
generate tons of controversy it seems, but as evidenced by the many
exchanges, it can get heated. I wish I had been here for the whole
discussion instead of reading up.
No matter if John is a real TT or not. He started and kept up with a
wonderful and informative discussion. In a way I will be a little sad
when this thread stops altogether. It was truly the best thread I have
read in a long *time*. I am not a PhD, but I did get a good laymans
view on the theories surrounding Time Travel. It has been an interest
for as long as I remember.
Question: Anyone else acutely conscious of the word *time* in daily speech? I am now. Just my focus I guess.
To All who Participated:
Thanks for the great read! Everyone. There are many well thought out parties on this sys.
Rick: You really DoD Intel?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-15-2001 10:31 PM
John,
So what do you have to say about what you started here? Have you no
idea that some of these people are following you like the Pie Pipper?
I don’t know about you, but I call that taking advantage of buying into
people’s fascination with Time Travel, using that as leverage for
perhaps your “Secret Agenda.”
Wherever you go in 3 weeks John, you’ll find someone with enough
guts to stand up to people like you, and oppose your exploitation.
Remember ME!
-Javier C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 10:57 PM
I still do not see how anyone can be from a future when that has not happened as far as I am concerned yet.
No doubt the answer is here in this thread.
I will have to go over it again.
For a moment, I was thinking that a microsinglularity might just
eat energy, and mass just gets in the way, (it’s not needed), making a
microsinglularity a kind of energy generator that can move mass with
its energy field, (skirting around its edge horizon event).
I have to look that up, again.
If so, then building this thing may not be all that difficult, except for a few engineering problems.
Should of listened to the Prof in Thermodynamics, afterall he wrote the answers for the test on the blackboard.
At the time, I guess I was interested in something else, I could tell you what, but I’ll keep it to myself for now.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:14 PM
Oh, I see you invented a new machine here. What do you call this thing?
I call it a ‘Time Travel’ machine.
Well, what do you hope it does when you turn it on?
I hope it doesn’t blow up the entire Solar System.
Interesting.
Well , I think it be more interesting if humans waited until we can take the whole entire Universe along.
Well, what do you mean?
Well, if we had antimatter, and could blow up the whole entire Universe, we could call it, “The Big Bang”.
Posted by Al Ryder on 03-15-2001 11:17 PM
Do you have a Timex Sinclair in your collection ??
Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-16-2001 12:22 AM
Hi John,
You’ve mentioned (and it makes sense that) computers get much
better by your time. Considering the vast difference between that
1975-vintage IBM 5100 you’ve picked up and the computer I have sitting
on my desk, I can’t imagine what computers will be like in 2036. Are
they even still called “computers”? Are you carrying a computing device
from your time? Have you had to use our ancient technology for all this
posting? I think I’d like to use my 1978 TRS-80 Model 1 again for
nostalgia’s sake, but 10 minutes of that and I’d have to stop from
frustration. How are you coping with our “stone-knives and bear-skins”
technology? That’s a Star Trek reference. Have you watched Star Trek?
What can you tell us about future computing technology without
conflicting with your “temporal prime directive”? We could guess some
things based on Moore’s Law concerning storage, speed, etc. It would be
nice for computer-geeks like me to hear some specifics though -
especially about form, function and interface.
Thanks for spending time giving us all great stuff to think about!
Posted by Jay Richards on 03-16-2001 12:36 AM
John, you never addressed my question posted several days ago. Would you address it?
Also, I noticed a post from you on a different thread where you
said something to the effect that everything that can or could have
ever happened has happened, and thus there’s an infinite number of
realities.
If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would
necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other
realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to
arise that cause there to be no other realities.
It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes
there to be only one single reality. In fact, it would necessarily give
rise to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there
to be only one reality.
It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes
there to no realities at all. In fact, it would necessarily give rise
to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there to be
no realities at all.
One might desire to argue that such realities could arise in the
future, from our perspective, and we simply haven’t encountered the
effects of that yet but we might in our future. But if that where the
case, then there would necessarily arise an infinite number of
realities that somehow causes there to have never been any other
reality from any perspective.
Etc.
There seems to be a bit of a problem with any sort of “infinite
reality” concept (or infinite Universes, for that matter), doesn’t
there?
So furthermore, if there’s a limit to the quantity of realities (or
Universes, for that matter), which logic clearly dictates that there
must be, what is the limiting factor?
Is it the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin? I don’t think so. There can be only one.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 06:31 AM
AL: The Timex Sinclair…I had one. I was 10 and it was incredible!
At that time I remember getting the expansion pack for the RAM, it came
stock with 2k i think. All Basic code on hot keys. Thanks, never
thought anyone else used one. Seems to me the Sinclair was as useless
as the Altair though. (that was b4 my start in comps.)
JOHN: I agree with Jim. I to am interested in your thoughts on the
future of computers and their interface etc. Any new types of periferal
devices?
Also,if the WTO protesters in Seattle had been at the time of the
future civil war, would they be at all similar to the victors of the
war?
And 1 more thing, I know you have commented about your puzzlement at
questions regarding Bill Gates. Well, Bill Gates has an interesting
story in how he became the wealthiest man (monetarily) on earth.
Obvious, however if what you suggest of the future is true, I see Mr.
Gates as a becoming a pinata for the amusement of those opposed to his
iconical representation of wealth. Hmmm. Being that his company has
been (arguably unfairly) chased by anti-trust issues..does he become a
financial force behind the Constitutional defenders?
Just wonderin’
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-16-2001 07:04 AM
Sounds like the computers of the future will be much like the kind
found in the Monty Python movie” Brazil” with their ancient typewriter
keyboards and those hilarious screen magnifiers. Can anyone tell me
what a “Pie Pipper” is?
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-16-2001 07:09 AM
Phil: “Rick: You really DoD Intel? “
My background is in intel. Communications, electronics,
intelligence. Currently I work in the computer security field. I work
in a national reserch facility. I keep my hands in intelligence -
though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never
really leave it.
I am a very patriotic person. I joined the military when I was
younger because of patriotism, not for college, not for the fun of it,
and certainly not because I HAD to do it. I did it because I believe in
the Constitution of the United States.
At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our
society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst.
See… we the people, ARE the government. When a society’s morals break
down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called
“government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all
common sense. The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common
sense. It can only have bureacratic ‘thoughts’ – the collective
thoughts, and actions of a group of people controllig the purse
strings, controlling everything, even down the people of the country.
The problem with this is – people like me still exist and probably
always will. We sit within a system that we view as corrupt, and
believe we can change it within the system itself. We try, hitting
brick wall after brick wall.
I still believe that our greatest acheivements are yet to come -
and yet, a nawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me
that something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about
5-6 years now. I can not put my finger on it, but, it all comes back to
your question… Intelligence.
We watch foreign governments and wonder what they will do next,
even predict what they will do next. We see things like Mad Cow disease
- and more recently a suddenl virile outbreak of hoof and mouth
disease. It didn’t hit just one farm, it hit most of England at the
same time. I believe – along with others, that this was a biological
attack (what better way to get away with murdering millions of people
without getting caught? You reduce their food supplies, and they die
slowly. You’re never caught because no one knows where you released the
disease).
Sitting here, reading this forum – and seeing what someone else saw
- that there were 19K hits or more makes me wonder about the future.
John may or may not be “for real” – but I will reserve my final
judgement for the upcoming video – even so, he has sparked an
intelligence, well thoughtout discussion on the part of each and
everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened
sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.
If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future
predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to
carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the
civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter
within a few months.
I already am a ‘survivalist’. My web site has been online for years
and contains a lot of information about nuclear war, disasters, storms,
earth changes… you name it, it’s there. If anyone wants the URL,
write me privately (Not sure if I can post it here). In the mean time -
I personally will be keeping my eyes on the intel side of things. Many
others will be too.
Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 07:55 AM
To my knowledge, there are no other sites where these pictures can
be seen and is stable. A few of them have not been posted before. I
suspect they will generate more questions which I will try to address.
John
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Topic=2&ID_Community=MyTimeMachine
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-16-2001 08:28 AM
Mel:
I believe you are referencing a comment made by Javier a few posts
earlier, and I believe “Pie Pipper” was just misspelled…I believe he
meant “The Pied Piper,” the legendary character and exterminator from
the German fairy tale of the same name who first led rats out of a
village by playing his magic pipe. Later he led all the children of the
village away when the town folk refused to pay him for ridding their
village of the rat infestation.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-16-2001 09:10 AM
No No No. The Pied Piper was a mere facsimile of our future Lord,
the Pie Pipper. A poseur. An interloper. All hail and bow to the Lord
of the Future! The Pie Pipper. Mothers shalt bake the pies, even shalt
they include the apple, the strawberry-rhubarb and the chocolate silk.
Baker’s Square shalt become places of worship. And the pies shall be
the symbol we shalt follow. Heretics and infidels who shalt mock and
ridicule the Pie Pipper shall be cast into a cherry pit.
I (vaguely) remember a book by Joe Haldeman where one of the characters
says, “With all these infinite moments, the future must get pretty
crowded, eh?”
That time traveller answered, “You can’t crowd infinity!”
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 09:34 AM
We’re going to die.
At least while you are here, John, have you visited some of the people’s leader, at Disneyland, “Mickey Mouse”?
Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?
M–i–c–k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e,
Mickey Mouse, Mickey Mouse
Forever will he lead us to the end.
Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?
M–i–c–, k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 09:37 AM
MEL: I think what John actually said was that typewriters are in use
in the future because it requires no electricity. Makes sense to me.
Consider what a waste it is to use a computer (electric) to type a
single note that will be simply thrown away after it is read….hmmm
As for the “Pie Pipper”, I am not sure what is meant except perhaps
it is really the Pied Piper, a fictional character that led rats out of
a european town by use of a flute?
RICK: I identify closely with all you stated above.
“I keep my hands in intelligence – though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never really leave it.”
I believe that. I have done skip tracing for an attorney and am
glad I developed those skills. Helps me now in searching for truth and
reality. I knew a fella who claimed to be retired CIA. One night we had
a couple drinks..well I did, he had more than a few. Anyway, he
proceded to tell me a lot of really intense stuff and some less intense
but still interesting as far as discussion. About a year later some
things he talked about were coming to light in media and the net….he
had been retired for several years. What was really sad in his case was
that he was obviously an intelligent man, but he was so burnt out
mentally and physically, and very aggressive.
“At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our
society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst.
See… we the people, ARE the government. When a society’s morals break
down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called
“government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all
common sense. The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common
sense. It can only have bureacratic ‘thoughts’”
I agree with that statement as well, but I see a further influence
in this. Media attempts to entertain instead of inform and so skews the
focus of life in our country. Seems to me that a properly managed info
show is entertaining. Hmmm, Art may have some far out people on
sometimes, but he does inform > entertain.
“a nawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me that
something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about 5-6
years now. I can not put my finger on it,”
For a long time I have interpreted a feeling that I am supposed to
DO something (maybe better prepare for eventualities), but as of yet do
not know what for sure. I too sense a shift somehow and there is at
times a feeling of massive change on the horizon. I have learned to
embrace change as good though. I have stagnated in my personal life
before and even the downside to change can be welcome for everything
seems to balance in the end result.
“We see things like Mad Cow disease”
Me too. I posted an opinion here on the bbs at
Predictions>Terrorist Attack in US. I would like you opinion on this
over there if you could be so kind.
“John may or may not be “for real”… he has sparked an
intelligence, well thoughtout discussion on the part of each and
everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened
sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.”
I could not have said it better.
“If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future
predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to
carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the
civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter
within a few months. “
At the least John seems to develop plausible, nay…probable
analysis. I have this sometimes annoying habit of catching things based
on the way they are phrased and I too caught several cue phrases that
suggest predictions. I am not so fortunate as to have a shelter. I live
35 miles from downtown LA in a suburb. I would be atomized in a
surprise attack. I plan to abandon the southland for someplce else if
imminent attack occurs. I know a place that is likely not targetted for
its non usefulness in a strategic strike. I plan to survive. Afterall,
that would be a change and tragicaly facinating.
Also Rick, in playing catch up in the posts two days ago, I did come across your link, just have to go check it out further.
JOHN: That link you provided does indeed show pictures that were
not on Doc’s page. Actually its better, Doc’s page has that annoying
Comet Mouse thing that stalls my browser. It is interesting to note,
for me anyway, that you use “archive” as a task label. I have used that
myself over the years, but it is not a common phrase. Is it a label you
use because of research?
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-16-2001 02:24 PM
((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here.))
(((Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue
that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public
domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler)))
John,
I like the way the thread is going here.
I brought up the patent/copyright ideas because time travel does
pose some interesting threats to intellectual property rights. We could
argue that the future GE has no problem with the release of
intellectual property into the public domain in 2036 and that they have
no connection with our timeline. However it could still impact the
present GE. It’s an interesting area to explore.
How do the two Boards of Directors protect their company(s) and their
shareholders? For the doubters, again, let’s “jus’ ‘spose” that the
research is ongoing today. It will not be cheap even if underwritten by
the government. Shareholders have a right to expect a return on their
investment and that includes protecting the company from disclosure of
“secret” documents. John has released post-R&D materials. They are
details of a working model. But their release is at a time while the
R&D is in process. GE would not want potential competitors
(Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Westinghouse, etc.) to have access to any
such material.
What, if any, standing does a potential plaintiff have and how do
they assert their rights? Where do they assert their rights (in what
time and what court of law)?
John, I still have my doubts about your machine based on the
science – but there’s always the chance that I’m wrong. So, I’m not
changing-up on you but posing some questions for you and everyone else
to consider. If we view the two worldlines as separate nations that
have contact with each other and to some extent affect each other, then
the political-legal implications have some validity. How do we resolve
these issues as we move forward?
BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted.
Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the
California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only
a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California
(go figure).
Taken from: http://www.oal.ca.gov
“Why is Title 24 (the California Building Standards) not included as part of this CCR Website?
Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations, known as California
Building Standards, contains copyrighted materials under the ownership
of several model code publishers and cannot be provided here. The
eleven parts of Title 24 that comprise California’s Building Standards
are available for review at depository libraries, or for purchase in
paper format from the copyright holders…”
When private companies are contracted by the government to do research
there are contractual agreements between the parties as to which, if
any, items discovered, written, produced, etc. are the property of the
government and which are the property of the private company
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-16-2001 02:31 PM
I find Rick’s attitute supportable as well. I think the youth are
indeed ready to rumble. They are an angry and aggressive group to a
large degree. It probably hasn’t helped to watch the love and peace
generation turn into the biggest, most hypocritical sell outs of all
time. As long as members of the 60′s generation take a yoga class once
in a while they feel free to consume and pollute without a backward
glance at the ideals they once held. (I am describing a good number of
my friends. And, God help me, maybe myself as well) It must look
obvious to the kids now that had we paid our ideals more than lip
service the United States might be in better shape. It must make them
bitter and also instill a good measure of hopelessness. My nephew is in
a band that travels internationally and he comments on how the European
youth do not have this hostility so present in all of the US cities he
plays. So many of us are insulated in our little realities we just
don’t feel those currents.
One comment on infinite realities. Infinity is something we can’t wrap
our brains around. We just don’t know what it means. We dismiss
infinite realities as an impossible situation because it is as yet
beyond the scope of the human brain. Mathematicians work on it as a
“problem to solve”. Mathematically, finite is as impossible as
infinite. Go figure!
Lola
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 03:14 PM
DARBY: Indeed it is interesting you bring up the possible problems
of the R&D phase of a project being affected by post R&D
documents. One thing you overlooked is that while GE is in direct
competition (in some areas)with the other companies you list, I cannot
recall a single project that was soley developed by a single contractor
in recent time. Even various projects for NASA are Boeing/Lockheed
products if I am not mistaken.
For Example: The B2 Bomber is a Northrop creation, they are Prime
contractor….with sub-contracted systems developed in partnership with
Lockhead and Boeing and scads of smaller companies as suppliers to
these larger systems.
What I am suggesting is that while GE may be the Prime Contractor for
the C204, it is unlikely they manufacture the entire unit in house.
Certainly most of the research will encompass GE solely, but Lockheed
is the only one I can think of that can come close to producing useable
products *almost* by themsleves through skunk works. My assertion here
as it relates to your question is that even if these docs ‘from’ 2036
are genuine, the impact is unlikely to alter anythink based on
copyrighted status, for many companies will have had a hand in the
process.
Besides, being that this is a separate world line from John’s, the
point is moot. At worst the development of the C204 is accellerated. No
problem there for me. Also, maybe in John’s world line a man introduced
documents in 2001 that enabled the development of TT by 2034…hmmm
LOLA: Hypocrisy, that is what you described in relation to many 60′s
folk that sold out for the cash. I do not remember the 60′s very
well…..I was not alive yet.
Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 05:28 PM
((BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted.
Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the
California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only
a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California
(go figure).))
My fault. It’s Federal documents.
“”Federal documents and publications are not copyrighted, and therefore are considered to be in the Public Domain.””
http://www.benedict.com/basic/public/public.htm
Courtesy of your web.
Posted by John Wade on 03-16-2001 08:21 PM
I didn’t have time to read through all of John Titor’s
statements. I do find it interesting that a high technology person from the near future who is into the dynamics of
moving objects through space and time doesn’t even know the correct date for the Wright Brothers first motor powered
heavier than air aircraft flight which is 1903. He said 1910 which
is way off. Its only the most important date in the history of aviation
and flight other than 1969, the date
for Neil Armstrong’s touch down on the moon. The 1903 date is in all the encyclopedias and history of aviation books.
To get the date wrong, and so totally wrong, to me is absolute proof that this person is a fraud. John
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