Lee said:
(and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))
Javier said:
“Maybe because of people like you.”
I say:
Ouch! Wrong forum to be discussing the child shooters, but I have
looked at why it happens and come up with my own conclusions. People
like Lee are not among the evidence. C’mon Javier, I am rootin’ for a
constructive dialogue.
Posted by Bob Marz on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
1. “Some things are worth fighting for.” Chocolate, maybe, but the
credibility of a self-proclaimed time traveler ln an internet message
board?
2. People are drawing conclusions based sheerly on the issue of whether
Titor has posted lately, concluding its an admission of guilt, knavery,
chicanery, etc. It proves no such thing. The fact that you draw a
flawed or hasty conclusion or project causal connections has nothing to
do with reality itself. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons why
he might not have posted lately.
3. I think Javier sees himself as Don Quixote, the man of La
Mancha, defending us “sheep,” and deluded “followers” of the ‘Pie
Pipper’(sic), ie, the guardian alpha-male patrolling the edge of the
herd for danger. I see him as a good guy too, but one who because of
tenacity and obsession, has singlehandedly beaten the funfactor of this
thread to a bloody pulp.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence there Phil. Xavier also said that,
“I take it you speak like this often.”
and then in the very next post replicates my form of posting. (which
isn’t patented and used by thousands of others as well) Imitation is a
form of flattery though and I’ll take it for what it’s worth. I’m
logging off and leaving now (not running). I’ve got to go eat a burger
before they are outlawed.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 01:01 PM
Jeez, you guys, I wish you wouldn’t encourage him. Now we will never be able to move on. Very funny, though,
Lola
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Phil,
Ouch? It wasn’t me who started. I had to finish it though… You support
the person who just attacked me by defending his statements. But don’t
wish to answer my questions? Talk about being counter-productive…
Where’s your credibility now? Where do you stand? I thought you
wanted me to say where people are wrong. Which is just what I did… And
have been doing from the start.
Any further questions?
-Javier C.
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM
Is Javier or Time Travel the subject of discussion now?
Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Thanks guys for coming to my defense. In response to your post. I am
47 years old and yes I was once 21. Regrets I’ve had a few, but than
again too few to mention(thanks Mr. Sinatra). Didn’t Al Bundy once
score 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and still wind up a
shoe salesman?
I know I’m a nobody, but I’ll ask you do you own a Porsche? I do.
Do you own your own business? I do. Have you ever shot under par in
golf? I have 8 times. Do you own your home? I do. About 15 years ago I
was one of the top 50 Toyota salesman in the country. The point is none
of this matters. We all have our own accomplishments. The only thing
I’m apparently good at is getting under some people’s skin on this post
to post BBS.
By the time I was 21 I had been to Europe twice. Once made it back from
Amsterdam with only 20 bucks in my pocket and having to hitch through
N.Y.C. The important thing in life is to make the most of your
experiences and to listen to the advice of people more experienced than
yourself. I guess I’m doomed to be an old Fuddy Duddy.
I feel a truce is in order. We are way off topic and they’ll
probably pull the plug on us at any time. Let me know how you feel.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM
Rick,
I don’t know what’s up with some of these people. It could be anything.
It could be the fact that John isn’t here. Maybe now that Darby is
perhaps brining people to realize what they believed John to be, has
upsetted them a bit. Or maybe they hate us, for being apart of driving
John away, I don’t know. Those are my guesses though.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:37 PM
Sure Mel, I guess we can have a truce. Even though I have more to say
.But remember, I had no body supporting me, I am half your age, and someday I will own a house. All in due time.
Truly,
Javier C.
P.S. Actually I am only 20 years old. My birthday is in 3 weeks
.[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 at 01:40 PM]
Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:45 PM
Javier,
It isn’t “these people”… it’s you my friend.
It wasn’t John that brought out the worst in any of us, it was each of us in turn, turning up the heat.You have a way of upsetting people, and quickly. When they feel the
must defend whatever it is you’ve upset them about, they come back with
all guns a-blazing.
Seriously, you do have a problem with time travelers – so it seems,
and you’re dead set on proving it. We all understand that, but here,
the point it moot. We don’t care too much whether or not you like them,
we only care to prove the truth.
Unfortunately, none of us, except John can do that right now, and he isn’t around.
I sort of suspected he vanish quietly – and he apparently has. So…
rather than everyone discussing the points of being 21/43 or 56, we
should be discussing the data we DO have, pictures and otherwise, and
trying to piece together what little we know.
If John is real, and he wants a person to observe, he will let us
know. Note that it is my opinion he won’t want us to, and if he DOES
provide a video, obviously none of us are going to believe it. Which,
by the way, John stated several times in the beginning – “I do not WANT
you to believe” – I think were his words.
The bickering accomplishes nothing, except to escalate a war that
has no purpose. Testosterone has its place, but it ain’t here.
Rick
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
I admit I am confused.
I may have to consult “Doctor Who”, President of Galifry, President
of the High Council of ‘Time Lords’ and ask him a few questions. He’s
usually off though fighting humans mortal enemey, the ‘Darleks’.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM
“What would be a productive way for you?”
Well, since you ask, I would attempt to describe my view in a clear
and descriptive manner. I have read all your posts and your web site. I
still do not understand *specifically* what your view IS based on. You
may have stated these things in previous posts, but overall the tone
you take in presenting has made it difficult to assemble an accurate
picture of what it is you are trying to say. The objective in
presentations is to make it EASY for the ‘viewer’ to understand. The
rhetoric confuses your message.
“If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal
drugs? “
I do know why certain drugs are illegal. I am aware that people die
from them sometimes. I had a friend who went on a research trip on
homelessness and lived the life and tried heroin and died. I have no
kids, but should I be so graced as to have them someday, I would raise
them knowing that I am the one man they can always count on to care
about them. I would encourage the discussion of anything, no matter the
subject by not violating trust issues involved in personal discussions.
If said child were to somehow become involved with the drugs, I would
not hate the drugs, I would find the distributor of said drugs to
children and at the very least quietly talk to my local PD Detectives
about removing said distributor from society. As for said child, I
would desire to discover why they felt the need to do illegal drugs,
but not freak on the child so they do not shut down and hate their
elders.
“All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.”
Sorry. I was a tad too broad perhaps, but there is a valid point to
make. Sometimes people state things in such a way that they themself do
not see how others are reading\hearing it. The way I read your comment
was indeed toward Mel when viewed on its own, but collectively your
demeanor seems fairly anti-toward people you do not know personally and
may happen to be older than yourself.
“First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong?”
Perhaps you have, but it seems to come across as if to say *because I say so*
“…sheep was a comment to those people that
bowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s.”
Again, Its all in how you state things. The way in which you stated
the sheep comment literally implied that everyone else were sheep.
Again, you may not see that implication, but it IS there.
“I hope this clarifies things”
Me too. I almost admire the enthusiasm you show, but as I see it,
when enthusiasm is coupled with a hatred of something it becomes a
crusade. The crusades were over long ago. I urge you to re-evaluate
your feeling of hatred, but I will not suggest you rethink your view.
Hate is such an ugly emotion that it consumes ones soul. I am not
intending to offend you Javier and it is not my goal to help everyone
in the world, but you have such a determined passion, it seems a waste
to see that consumed with the hatred. I hated someone before. Turns
out, I had been harming myself by hating that person. They were
external to me so I moved on with life and although I still Strongly
dislike them, I do not throw myself into their path on purpose and am a
pretty happy guy.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 02:40 PM
Phil,
Your empathic nature is understandable. But I cannot always be
concern by how someone will interpret what I say. I don’t claim to be a
people person; I never said I would be politically correct. I said I
would do what’s right, and bring out the truth. Which is what we are
all looking for, and doing?
So my way is different. Is there a standard I have to follow?
You can get the same results in many different ways. I suppose
being offence, instead of defense or neutral is what most people prefer
that I be. That’s very nice, but it wouldn’t fit my nature.
Action if more my forte, defense might be another mans way of solving
problems. And some are neutral (pacifists) who don’t try, but get
things done somehow.
Each way has it’s own merit. Like many others things in this world (religions, schools, governments). I choose action though.
-Javier C.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 02:54 PM
I was not trying to change you. I was simply offering advice on a
more effective way to get your message understood. If force is your
way, so be it, but be prepared to be misunderstood. No harm no foul. No
disrespect. Take care Javier. I believe you have peoples best interest
at heart, but I also believe you are taking the hard path to
communication.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 03:10 PM
My way is not so much force, but actually doing something. Taking
action. Force by it’s self sounds really bad. And I guess that’s were I
was misunderstood. Oh well, thanks for understanding
. I’m glad we could all come to a resolution.-Javier C.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 03:29 PM
This thread has gone south. Rick, I think you should be the one to
start a new thread on TT where we can carry on our previous discussion
and leave these guys to worry over JC’s communication style (or lack
thereof).
[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 03:32 PM]
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 06:10 PM
And what previous discussion would that be? Supporting a man who claims to be from the future? Ookkaayy.
-J.C.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 06:19 PM
Rick,
What Boomer has described so far, even though he uses the term
Tipler Sinusoid, isn’t the description of a Tipler cylinder. Professor
Tipler describes the cylinder as having 10 solar masses or more and
squeezed into an infinitely dense and infinitely long cylinder – which
is longitudionally spun at about one billion RPM’s.
I suppose that if you were interested in verification of Boomer’s
science that you could go right to the source, Dr. Frank Tipler, Tulane
University, for an interview. Ask him his thoughts on Boomer’s device -
afterall, its Dr. Tipler’s science:
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/
Address: Department of Mathematics
Tulane University
New Orleans, LA 70118
Email: tipler@math.tulane.edu
Office: Gibson 305
Phone: (504) 862-3449
FAX: (504) 865-5063
Oh…the Schwarzschild Radius of about 1.33 meters (4 ft). I hope
that Boomer doesn’t hang his left arm out the window because it might
be left behind in 2036 when he fires up that puppy.
I doubt that you’ll get to interview Boomer. I wanted to know the
ET of his trip because of some comments he posted at various times.
He’s stated that its very important for the machine to be absolutely
still – it makes a “timelike trip” and not a “spacelike trip”. He also
says that the traveler is exposed to 1.5 to 2.0 g’s of accelleration
and needs an oxygen supply. At 2 g accelleration you will be traveling
just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year
to reach light speed).
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 08:30 PM
Do You suppose DARBY, that IF John is a TT, that the Tipler
cyclinder he describes could simply be a revision on the current one
that Mr. Tipler has? I mean, if he is from 2036, it could be a revised
schematic.
Lola:
Todays side trip with JC was actually healthy for the thread by my
view, for there has been contempt brewing for a while and perhaps that
released some tensions. For my part, I was trying to offer a method of
communicating to JC because I am sincerely interested in all
perspectives given. His included. I dunno if he will provide a detailed
and less ‘action’ aka force oriented dialogue (teasing JC), but we
shall see. That is what makes it pertinent to the thread.
Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 09:38 PM
Phil,
I certainly applaud your effort and admire you for having the kind
of heart that makes that effort. But I think it is obvious by now that
no headway is possible. It starts to detract from the other good stuff
going on here.
To the board-
Why do you think John has gone off the board? Is it because Darby’s
analysis made him uncomfortable or could it have been Rick’s serious
offer to film the event? (or neither)
I don’t think packing would be taking every waking moment as there is not much room in that car.
There was another alleged TT around awhile ago that left due to
lack of interest. He claims to be from the far future. It would be
interesting to see where our discussion might go with a different
scenario for the future.
I wanted to make a point regarding Darby’s treason suggestion made
earlier. Every revolution starts with an act of treason. History is
written by the victors. We have many hero’s in our past that would be
considered villians if the English had won the war.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 10:02 PM
I had a few ideas why John might not be here. About 2 pages ago today
.John feels the pressure he’s been getting in this thread by someone
he didn’t expect. He was well comfortable when it was just me being the
only one opposing him. But now, that’s all changed.
We all know John wouldn’t leave without saying good-bye. He likes the
attention; he likes people to think he’s interesting. Right Pamela?
Typical Machiavellian behavior if you ask me.
-Javier C.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-22-2001 10:46 PM
He was out of town.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:01 PM
Well, my guess is he’ll be back. In the meantime can someone explain what a tipler sinusoid field is?
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:16 PM
The thoughts fromt the ‘Great Nuthin’ which will prove nuthin’.
While I never followed through on physics and just do not remember it,
I leave the calcs to someone else. My whole thought, and I will have to
do a lot of reviewing, is even if a person (John) shows up with a
device claiming to travel in time, something just bothers me about the
convenience of it. To me all things that were built needed a boost of
technology. Nothing was convenient. Now I admit that producing a
microsinglarity would be significant, and clever engineering would
help, but still I feel that it just does not produce a time machine. I
have to check on the theory of “why” that would produce ‘time travel’.
I must admit that I am not trying to solve how to produce a time
machine, which to me with all of the math and thinking just ends up
being in a different ball park then where the ball was even hit.
That’s all I have right now, two cents.
But if your really convinced that this produces time travel, I read about it.
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
One thought did just occurr to me, and I’m not saying this as proof
of anyone claiming to be a time travelor, but more or less as an
interesting socialolical point, no one believed Jesus was who he was
either.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 11:35 PM
I’ll try to be brief. At first, I thought ‘smart rocks’ sounded like
a good idea. Now, I do not. The only practical purpose of having a
‘smart rock’ to me is to shoot down an incoming missile to keep the
missile from reaching the target. Leaving nuclear missiles in the ocean
or exploding the missile high above, perhaps in space, may just wreck
the ozone layer or something, especially, leaving corroded nuclear
missiles in the ocean. They will corrode. They do find bombs from WWII
yet.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 12:06 AM
Pamela,
How do you know? Is he back then? I guess we should hear from him real soon
.Barbara, so what’s your point? John is a real Time Traveler because some people don’t believe him?
J.C.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 01:29 AM
Okay, I admit that somewhere I am not up to par with these theories.
But one question seems to not have been asked, and if I missed it I
apologize.
Interesting theories, except “Who or what was the first time traveler?”
I am not debating whether John is real or not, nor if the theory
supports time travel. Before humans went into space, I think, if I ever
think I remember, monkeys went into space. I find that it would be
dishearting if all of a sudden, “we need a human operator of this
device, because a human must go in order to get back.” I think of a
moral, ethical people, that some type of remote controls and initial
flights would be needed. Frankly, this type of time travel, even with
100% certainty, scares the “heck” out of me. Is anyone sure that they
would indeed volunteer for a “All of the theory works out, but…. we
won’t really be sure until you come back from your TT trip.” And by the
way, have a nice day!
Just imagining what going on this trip really means.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 07:47 AM
Phil,
I’m assuming that if what Boomer says is true then the science
would be an advancement on what Dr. Tipler has proposed. However Dr.
Tipler isn’t in 2036 he’s here in 2001 and should have some ideas about
what Boomer purports to be true of Tipler-based science.
Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive
today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s
GR ideads, are you?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 07:59 AM
Javier: About Barbaras comment, she states that” I’m not saying this
as proof of anyone claiming to be a time travelor”. It seems clear
enough that she was only drawing the conclusion that Jesus was not
believed to be Jesus and John may not be believed to be a TT. Yes I
agree it leads to an assumption, but moreso she seems to clearly bring
up the fact that we really do not know and will not know unless
something happens to prove it or disclaim it.
James: Yesterday was a day that was more or less devoted to Javier.
I do not wish to offend you, but really, Javier has his point of view
too. I would agree that his manner of conveying that message has at
times been caustic, but your attack on him actually seems worse than
his ‘action’aka force oriented method of communication. The frustration
is understood by everyone I think, but isn’t the action of telling him
“leave and go back to your website” a tad extreme?
Everyone: Yesterday was indeed a day that centered less on topic
than might be desired, in the words of an infamous person,”cant we all
just, get along?”
j/k Really though, I am curious if anyonebelieves John is a TT based on faith, since as of yet there is no
concrete proof. I ask this out of curiosity and request that if anyone
responds to this that everyone simply address this, if they wish,
without attacking. Yes Javier, I am asking you too (playin with ya, J)
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:07 AM
Well, Darby, I think I overlooked the possible value of talking to
Mr. Tipler and discussing the model that John has brought forth. Who
knows, may that is how Mr Tipler revises his model. Would that not be
bizarre if someone brought the John design to Mr Tiplers attention and
thus caused the Time Travel Technology to advance?
“Surely you’re not suggesting that if Albert Einstein was alive
today that there would be no value in seeking his opinion of Boomer’s
GR ideads, are you?”
Oh No!
Al was a facinating a brilliant man. Personally I rateSchrodinger a tad higher on the list, but not by much. I actually
suspect that Al would be pertly opposed to the concepts brought up
here. Maybe I am wrong, but Al only desired to go just so far into
quantum physics. therefore rendering his opinion interesting but not
necesarily pertinent. Am I wrong?
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
If time travel is to be achieved using the methods described by
John, where is the mass coming from that would be required to achieve
it? I believe Darby touched on this earlier, but I have not seen a
satisfactory explanation given.
Supposing John is who he said he is, what business is it of anybody
here to question his “motives”? I see this as no different, in this
aspect, as it is for anyone of us to take a trip across town or across
state lines. Since John is an American, he is legally allowed to move
about as he feels as long as he is not breaking any laws. Had he been
from another country, then I suppose he would have had to report to
Immigration.
I know of no laws against time travel, per se. I do know of some
regimes that have existed, though, where freedom of movement by
individuals was not allowed…”Show me your papers!”…and it was not
in the United States of America.
Darby, I do not necessarily regard John’s purported actions in the
upcoming conflict to have been treasonous. They MAY have been, but I
would have to know more details to make that determination.
By the way, Darby, I picture you as about 55 to 60 years of age,
working as a university professor with patches on the elbows of your
jacket and loafers on your feet, occasionally imbibing on a pipe filled
with excellent and aromatic tobacco. You enjoyed reading Sherlock
Holmes as a child, and fancy yourself as a modern day sleuth of his
ilk. You are highly intelligent, as well as being very popular with
your students. I do not believe you have ever married or had children,
as you were gilted by the one and only true love of your life while
still a youth. Being the romantic that you are, it was at that low
point in your life that you decided to devote yourself to your academic
pursuits. You also drive a two seated European convertible.
How did I do?
(By the way, I would have loved to have had you as one of my professors, too!)
[Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 at 08:25 AM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 08:18 AM
First, I wish to apologise for perhaps stirring the pot with a bit
too much vigor yesterday..I thought that the possibility of time travel
was pretty much accepted since in a way we are all time travelers but
only in one direction and at a universal speed common to all of us. The
thought that through mechanical contrivance we could go in several
different directions at different rates is a fascinating conjecture. I
believe that John Titor (the real name or gender is irrelevant) is a
real person. As to the possibility that he/she/it may be from some
elsewhen I have my doubts but I will allow for a tiny crack of that
possibility to exist. Why such a person would spend precious time here
on this BBS is unfathomable to me. It would be like going back to the
1930s and listening in on a party-line telephone. It seems apparent
that unless he/she/it comes back and makes further comment there isn’t
much point to this thread and a new general discussion of temporeal
movement is in order.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 08:24 AM
Lola,
Thanks for the kind words. And you’re right, every revolution begins
with a traitor’s act. And is then fought by 19 year old kids. Love to
talk it over with you – lunch at the Red Barn, SY.
Everyone should understand that I don’t really consider Boomer to
be a traitor or a murderer principally because I don’t believe his
story and secondarily because his online persona appears to be that of
a decent person.
What I attempted to point out is that the totality of a
circumstance should be considered in any analysis of rhetoric. As
Boomer spun the yarn he made some statements about his political
alignment that needed to be addressed. There’s more yet to be
considered. For instance:
Let’s ‘jus ‘spose once again that its all true. Boomer is a TT, a
Major in the military (or former Major now under civilian contract)of
the regional nation of Florida (or whatever that region is called)and
our government is the enemy state in the war to begin in 2004. Let’s
also ‘jus ‘spose that Rick really is a former Military/DoD intelligence
operative (and shooter)of that enemy state. Would Boomer, a trained
field grade military officer allow Rick within 1000 miles of his
country’s device? If Rick turned out to be a “not-so-Ex” spook and
managed to snatch the device with a little help from his friends what
would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036
with a suitcase nuclear device onboard?
Boomer has rather flippantly answered questions at times by saying
that we can’t affect his personal timeline. While that may be true a
retalliatory strike by us would affect someone’s timeline. A 22 kt nuke
would mess up their entire afternoon if it went off in the lab upon the
return of the machine.
Again, its a great topic for discussion but Boomer isn’t a TT. No
country, past-present-future, would trust such a powerful strategic
device to Clodpole for the purpose of mixing both a business trip and a
personal vacation. For the techno-military geeks: Have you ever heard
of an Air FOrce officer who took out an SR-71 Blackbird on a vacation
trip – kind of on loan from DIA/NSA for a few months. Same-same here.
Boomer may feel that a flip answer is OK, but his handlers wouldn’t be quite so confident that the machine wouldn’t be snatched.
Note for Rick: I agree with your earlier post that some sloppy detail
work on military hardware or manuals is common. PRC-25′s, PRC-75′s and
other common communications hardware are old and utilitarian and
treated roughly.
Was sloppy workmanship and detailing on ICBM’s, LA class nuke boats
and nuclear devices also your experience? The machine and manual
wouldn’t be common grunt equipment that get humped in the boonies and
tossed into the hooch at night. Its two year old (in 2036) cutting edge
strategic technology developed by GE and CERN (cyclorton) and cost
billions of dollars. Is it your experience that that sort of hardware
is treated with the same disdain as a field radio?
[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 08:45 AM
Darby:
“what would prevent we, the enemy state, from returning the machine to 2036 with a suitcase nuclear device onboard? “
In your described ‘jus’ suppose scenario I had a couple thoughts
that might bring caution to the possibility of ANY authority sending a
suitcase in time. If I recall correctly, John stated he has to travel
back to 1975 and then back to 2036. First, if I am correct with this
statement, The machine would have to stop in ’75 and it would stay
there without a person in attendance thus blowing up somewhens 1975.
Second, do we know if a person has to be in the ‘driver seat’ of the
Chevy to operate the machine? If so, a suitcase nuke and a operator
both go boom, thus a suicide mission. Also, Suppose an authority did
that suitcase trick. Suppose it gets to 2036. There will be a lot of
surprised people in Florida. Well, ‘what if’ the world line that
received the suitacse happened to be ours when we reach 2036. OOPS!
Just a thought or two.
BTW, If 4 out of 5 Time Travellers SUFFER from diarhea, does the other one enjoy it?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 09:10 AM
So……We have progressed to talking and questioning John to
thinking of what would happen if you sent a suitcase bomb back to
John’s world, blowing him up along with his machine and parts of the
worldline he would be on at the time…possibly ours????
….Do you still wonder why you never see any time travelers?
[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 09:13 AM]
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:28 AM
Does anyone wonder if we will even make it through this time?
Maybe, John, is more adept at not being caught, then we think.
I beginning to think about the story, that it is not entirely been
written by John, himself. That a group of people covered the story. I
also wondered if John was a Russian, I would submit, although I do not
know, that there are people in this country, that should not be here,
and not poor people from another nation. Tied to embassies of foreign
nations, I think the US does the same thing.
What would be the purpose of sending a suitcase bomb explosive through time?
You people are getting dangerous. Is that the use of a time machine?
Someone better bow to Javier than, because certainly other people would be fighting to not allow time travel.
I think most of the time, there must be continual civil wars in the future by opposing groups.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 09:29 AM
The suitcase thing is a suppose-it scenario that I cannot see anyone saying “oh yeah great idea” about.
Seems that by and large the posts have been quite thorough and
inquisitive, but it is odd that John has not posted since the 18th. I
saw your post about him being out of town. Does that mean he is back in
town? If so, there are loads of questions still to be asked.
As for the way the thread has spun toward its current path.
Consider a classroom of 4th graders. If the teacher leaves the
classroom, does the class atmosphere take a spin toward another
direction until the teacher returns to bring things back to the
original direction? Yes.
I am not using the above example as a literal application to this threads posters or John, just the concept.
Please consider that before frowning at the current status. I am
certain everyone would be quite pleased if john came on and fielded the
concerns of those here. He did start the thread and it would be
appropriate if he continued his dialogue or said thats it, time to skip
the world lines.
If you have read back…except for yesterday…there have been many
good questions left unanswered going way back. In fact I cannot find a
single response from John regarding anything I have asked, so I have
not been attempting to ask anything. Rather I have continued the
interaction with others here. If you feel that a TT would not come here
because someone chooses to speculate on other motives that are in the
realm of possibilty to stretched possibility, then so be it, but look
close and see the suitcase stuff for what it is. A speculation. Did
anyone actually imply the application of that speculation? Not that I
saw.
Respectfully.
Phil
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:43 AM
But Phil, it is an interesting twist. Star Trek never addressed
questions like “If we have matter dispacement, we’ll beam a bomb
aboard”. All the tech from these made-up worlds were so different that
no species could do that. Still, there are ‘laws of nature’ that are
all the same.
How does ‘tech’ remain different if all ‘laws of nature’ are the
same? That does include all species in the Universe to me, so far. We
suppose that species would be different somehow, but in the end because
of the ‘laws of nature’ that may not be true. How do we know that John
is not a alien? At which point do humans go a different way with tech.
In the future, if a war happened, if anyone mentioned doing certain
tech, I think witch hunts would be common, not that tech, never mention
it again, kind of life.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 09:46 AM
John, are you receiving smileys yet! Smile, smile, smile, lots of smileys!
Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-23-2001 09:49 AM
Pamela:
Nice to have you back! I concur with a lot of what Phil just
posted. I, too, have asked several questions to John and none of them
was ever answered. Maybe he did not consider them “deep” enough to
reply to, but I felt that my questions were not of the sort that could
be construed as a means for me to gain an unfair advantage over someone
else. For example, I asked if the NCAA still held a baskeball
tournament, and if so, was it still in its current format.
As for Darby’s comment regarding placing a suitcase sized nuclear
device in John’s time machine, that appears to be a good and
appropriate point in which to discuss. It falls within the realm of
philosphical and moral implications that have previously appeared in
this thread. I have not really been able to place my finger on just
what it is that Javier has found so offensive about time travel in
general, but this is a scenario that might explain it. Maybe Javier
fears Time Travelers doing the reverse and bringing back nuclear (or
worse) devices into our time and setting them off in an act of
terrorism.
Anyway, I am glad back to have you back in the discussion, Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 10:03 AM
I didn’t bring up the scenario of the suitcase. I did try and
explain why I felt it was pointless for anyone to try it though. I see
no error in logic there. You mention Star Trek. In the Wrath of Kahn,
was there not a Genesis device that Kahn wanted to use as a weapon?
That is a tech spec example that uses well intended science for less
nobel causes. The difference is that in that movie, Khan Intended to do
his scheme. Here it was not an intended action. Just speculation on
what a governing body could contemplate doing. Of course from my
current viewpoint, the theories and discussion here are facinating, but
still fantasy role play unless that role play becomes real thru solid
proof.
I can only speak for myself, but I do not wish harm to anyone. Not
a sole. As to John specifically, he has not harmed me or my loved ones,
so why should I desire to harm him. I would like it if he would come
back for a bit and at least properly terminate the discussion from his
part. It is irritating when someone starts something and then simply
disappears. Have you seen the number of people who have browsed this
thread? My god, theres been tens of thousands of browses and well over
700 posts. That seems to say something about the interest level.
Seems that overall, everyone here would like to continue this discussion, but the central figure in the debate is MIA.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:20 AM
I’m to wish no harm on anyone. I am just referring to the storyline.
Let’s suppose its true, then: “Once the nuclear button is pressed, humanity breaks down.” It may never recuperate.
New Rule from God, perhaps: “Thou shall keep thy finger off of the
nuclear button, humans never again gain for hundreds of year.” Then
such a tech as TT, would be a ‘forbidden’ tech.
Well, I’ll have to think of something more pleasant.
John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 10:51 AM
To answer John’s question somewhere along this thread:
Humans just have a better life coming up with techs that help
humans out to deal with overpopulation and other issues than developing
techs that lead the world into madness.
Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 11:06 AM
“John stated that he did not understand why people would stay in the
cities if nuclear war was immenient, this may be the reason.”
I actually think that the majority of people stay in the city because
the emphasis of lifestyle has shifted away from the rural. I cannot
count how many people have told me that they could not even contemplate
living anywhere but L.A., for example. Additionally, I also come across
many people who are insulated from real news by their own choice. Just
those two attitudes alone can account for many of the people who would
choose to stay in a city.
I live in suburbia. Downtown L.A. is 35 miles from me as the crow
flies. There is the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station so close to me
that I can just about see their fences. The only reason I am here is
because my wife will not move out of the region. I would prefer a rural
setting. Life has choices and because I love my wife, I stay. Rest
assured that if/when it comes time to flee, I will be doing so,
bringing her along by force if necessary. I am certain many will stay.
Why? Lots of reasons, but I only will name the two.
It is pointless to me to continue speculating on if John is a TT
unless additional compelling documents are conversational exchanges
occur, for if nothing else, he has provided a discusion that allowed us
all to explore many themes that spur from future thinking. His list of
suggestions are logical and the entire dialogue has been entertaining
to boot.
Ever heard of classes that entertain while teaching? Comedy traffic
school is an example. Of course this is not a school and John is not a
teacher, but the principle is the same.
[Edited by Phil Fiord on 03-23-2001 at 11:08 AM]
Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-23-2001 11:40 AM
Well, like with Jesus and his situation, I was just thinking how
frustrating to the person it must be if it IS true. Suddenly everything
is frozen, you have to defend your arrival, and that becomes the whole
thing. After all, everyone else walks in a room and advances from that
point, but if you doubt the reality of the person coming in the room
its like you never get to be in the room until you can prove your going
through the door is allowed. I always thought it must’ve been
frustrating to be Jesus, (saying here he was what he said he was) and
spend all your time having to defend your claim, and not get on to the
reason you came and all. Very aggravating.
Posted by James Boley on 03-23-2001 11:41 AM
Darby sure seemed to hit the nail on the head with John Titor. He came towards the end of Johns ‘reign’ over his followers.
Is Darby John Titor?
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 11:54 AM
I sure hope not, I like the way Darby thinks
.-J.C.
P.S. If I don’t come back today, it’s because somethings gone wrong with my computer upgrade. C-ya.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:03 PM
The purpose of John’s visit is that we help them solve their problems in the future, that’s why he is here.
I do not know if we can do that without being a comedy routine to him.
Certainly, if everyone bowed to everyone, like the Japanense do then no
human may be talking. Taking it to the ridiculous, everyone be bowing
the rest of their lives. Living in a major city is to me another point
of ridiculous, people live there for the greatness of the city, then
everyone decides that they really rather be actually at times somewhere
else, away from a big city. The only reason to be in a ‘big city’ is to
feel more alive.
I admit I am dumbfounded at this point. I can not perhaps help
John with his problems in the future, and I can not help anyone in this
world now, but still I must be, somehow.
Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-23-2001 12:50 PM
I’ll propose another question to John. I like the validity of the TV
show “StarGate”. You need six points of reference for a cube and a
seventh reference, the point of origin, before you can travel through a
wormhole type time travel.
May be that I am missing something here. Further thought required.
The Universe is central to our existence, but we are central to the
Universe. Yet we have infinite multiple ‘worldlines’ of all time where
we are ‘yet’ not a ‘God’ but are a ‘God’. Interesting.
Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-23-2001 03:45 PM
James,
An interesting thought – Boomer and me – the same person. Imagine
the philosophical thought games that I’d be playing with myself.
Fortunately for me, I’m not him (I think he’d agree).
All
I posed the question of sending a device back to Boomer’s lab in
the machine from the perspective of his handlers. From their
perspective we are the enemy upon whom they made war. Would they be
willing to risk even the smallest of possibility of having their
machine fall into enemy hands and incur some sort of retaliatory
strike? Nuke, biological, chemical, or just a healthy dose of C4?
Imagine the result of blowing up the device with ordinary explosives. I
don’t know if I’d want two 3*10^18 kg black holes auguring into my back
yard.
Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a
personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine? It is, after all,
a machine. Machines can break down. It’s the result of a program that
went live in 2034. It has a computer – software, by definition, has
bugs. Last I heard we still have burglars in Florida. While he’s been
hanging around some hype could steal his IBM 5100. It may be a piece of
junk but would a junkie know that? When your nose is running and your
skin is crawling and you want that smacked-back feeling any port in the
storm will do to get a fix – even Boomer’s IBM 5100. If the machine
were that important to his handlers would they authorize a personal
vacation and risk losing the computer?
I dunno – how about you?
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:02 PM
((Pamela. Do you think John will resurface here?))
I think he is planning on it but he said he will be unable to
address everything.. I don’t think he has time. I don’t want to speak
for him though maybe he will come on here and tell you himself.
Albert, it is interesting that you mentioned “StarGate.” That was
one of my favorite movies. I thought of that right away when they spoke
of sending a bomb back to John’s lab.
they did the same in that science fiction movie they snuck a
nuclear device back through the stargate to blow up the other world if
they found life on it.
Did you see the movie “contact” with Jodie Foster? That is another one of my favorite movies.
ps. John and Darby are NOT the same person. maybe Javier and Darby are the same??? hehehehehe
[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 at 04:11 PM]
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:15 PM
Pamela, If John IS a real TT…he will have time, all the time in the world.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:26 PM
Lee,
I think that is a misconception. that a time traveler has “all the time in the world.”
That might be true if his machine could be operated in that manner.
but my understanding is it cannot. once you operate the machine and you
leave the worldline can you return to the same one?
You can only arrive and leave at certain times .
the conditions have to be right.
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 04:51 PM
Pamela, You may be right about that. I just don’t know but I do find
it very interesting that although none of us are currently time
traveling except in our own lives we have somehow managed to divise
rules of the road for doing so.
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 04:58 PM
“none of us are currently time traveling except in our own lives…”
How can you be so sure? Maybe there are others…..
Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-23-2001 05:09 PM
I have just received another picture from John to post.
I will send it to Rick Donaldson to post on his board.
It is titled “final proof?”
Hopefully he will post it soon.
sincerely,
Pamela
Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-23-2001 05:13 PM
Well I suppose nothing is what it seems if you can warp time and
space so you’ve got me there but I have a pretty solid feeling that
most if not all of us are very firmly docked in the present. Thanks for
keeping me loose.
Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-23-2001 05:25 PM
Thanks Pamela, I’ll take that as a compliment, but I’m not Darby
.Btw, Lee brought up something interesting I’d like to talk about.
“Rules of the Road” as we know them, apply for everyone’s safety. How I
have been saying all along, as far as we know they are no rules for
Time Travelers. Exploiting the past, and its unknowing people is
unethical and convenient for them. For all we know, they could be
invisible right now, and orchestrating our lives to their will. Anyone
ever think about that? Well we all should… Consider the possibilities
that Time Travelers are opportunist, who wish nothing more then to help
them selves.
I have a lot to say on this matter, but I’ll spare you all the rhetoric… For the moment
.Anyway’s, speaking of movies, check out this website and it’s trailer, I like it
. http://www.finalfantasy.com-Javier C.
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