Postagens Originais do John Titor (Parte 31)

Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 04-05-2001 02:47 AM

Wonder Woman,
Forgive me for using one of Boomer’s conventions as I respond to your last post:
(((Keep these details in mind when analyzing the functionality of the machine))
OK.
(((1. The singularity itself does not touch anything. it is suspended in a magnetic feild.)))
I don’t think that I suggested that anything touches the
singularity. It’s the Schwarzschild Radius (event horizon) that I was
referring to.

(((2.The singularity is charged before it is captured. that is how the second event horizon is formed. positive-top spin.)))
An electron can be described as positive or negative top or bottom
spin. But an electron isn’t a singularity at the center of a black
hole. How does one “charge” a singularity given that any particle that
falls into it becomes part of the singularity? If it has a charge it’s
composed of quarks. If it’s composed of quarks it isn’t a singularity.

(((3.The gravity fields they create are combined and twisted.)))
OK. Boomer also creates a gratitational field as does the truck
which combine with the fields. I don’t see how this addresses any of my
issues.

(((4. The gravity between the singularity and the event horizons have different properties.)))
The statement doesn’t make sense. The singularity does create a
gravitational field. That part of the gravitational field where the
escape velocity is just equal to the speed of light is the event
horizon. The EH generates no field at all – it is the field (or a
specific region of it to be precise.)

(((5. They are controlled by overlapping and varying the energy between them.)))
See #3. They either overlap or they combine. The fields are either
in phase (combine)or out of phase (overlap). Phase coupling and phase
cancellation has to be accounted for given the following: we are
dealing with a relatively small mass(micro-singularities); the truck is
massive and has numerous odd shapes; differing areas of the truck have
varying densities; the truck heats and cools at differing rates and
thus expands and contracts at differing rates; Boomer is massive and
it’s unlikely that he sits perfectly still during the “spin up”. Each
of these variables also twist and warp the gravitational field and do
so unpredictably.

(((6. The machine is in the back seat when in operation.)))
OK. Front seat, back seat or on the roof.
A. None of the six points address how the device continues to function
as it is engulfed within the expanding event horizon (from the portion
of my post where I asssume that the device can actually generate a
sufficiently intense gravitational field). “Inside the event horizon”
means no communication with the outside – the device can’t communicate
information to Boomer and Boomer can’t communicate with it. For all
intents and purposes it no longer exists.

B. Your post doesn’t address the numbers that I posted. Boomer has
consistently stated that these are micro-singularities.
Micro-singularities have tiny masses and consequently tiny
gravitational fields. His singularities were made by colliding alpha
particles (protons)in the CERN collider. True, if an object closely
approches the field the effects would be intense but not widespread.

C. As I posted, if I assume 200kg mass and sufficient angular
momentum (spin) and allow the impossible expansion of one-trillion fold
the EV becomes a “huge” 9mm radius field. Boomer and the truck aren’t
going to be sucked through the eye of a needle.

D. Boomer suggests that the “distortion field” to about 4 meters (15-16
feet)with sufficient intensity to suck him into the field from a
distance of 1 meter as well as sucking the truck into the field at a
distance of about three meters. AND he says that neither he nor the
truck falls inside the Schwarzschild Radius. He describes a field that
has a Schwarzschild Radius of less than one meter; doesn’t rip him
apart due to tidal effects and is still sufficiently intense at three
times that distance (thus 1/8th the intensity) to also suck in the
truck from front bumper to read bumper.

It won’t work. Even if he danced on the head of a pin and managed to
explain away my “A.” above there’s no way to explain way “D.” Tipler
time travel is accomplished by passing extremely close to the EH from
specific angles. “Extremely close” does not include three Schwarzschild
Radii from the center of gravity.

Hey – this is fun again! Debating the facts instead of flaming each other. <smooch>
[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 04-05-2001 at 03:06 AM]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 04-05-2001 05:04 AM
And to think, Boomer went quiet and then said he was leaving right
around the time Darby proposed his well thought out questions to him.
That’s to bad , you really missed out John.

I mean you were quiet for a whole week, and then said that this is your
last post when you came back. Which was 2 weeks ago (I think, correct
me if I’m wrong on the date Pamela ).
So you were still around, hanging out and lurking through these forums
reading all these posts. But how did you keep from answering ?

I guess fear is a powerful motivator to flee and avoid incrimination of
ones own statements. Especially when encountered with an equally
matched intelligence. It’s hard to keep up, when you know your story
and claims will soon come collapsing in on it’s self.

Good job in explaining all this scientific stuff in an objective manner
Darby. Makes me envies that I’m not a scientist nor that I know jack
about what you just said .
But I do know it questions and disproves John’s claims, allowing others
who are 1 sided to see another side not yet visible to them.

Good luck in keeping people from starting up a John Titor cult while
I’m gone. I don’t wanna come back and hear people chanting, hehee.

Yeah yeah, I know I said that already. So I said it again, it sounded
it funny to me. Just like Zytol’s commercial “A low risk of sexual side
affects.” How they can say that with a straight face just baffles me .

Peace,
Javier C.

Posted by Randy Empey on 04-05-2001 07:38 AM
Javier:
Ah, but the cult was begun a long time ago … and you’ve been a visiting preacher many times, I thought you knew!!!
I hope you don’t wind up spending a weekend in some Floridian jail for harrassment of a John Titor named-alike.
– Randy E.
(P.S. — See the cult-accountant, maybe they owe you some back pay …)
Darby:
If you are going to talk about singularities and thier properties, why
don’t you pull in the formulas et. al. from the appropriate current
theories so that folks can’t dismiss your statements as contrived,
ill-informed or at best incomplete? John never told us he was goint to
‘take the bull by the horns’ and provide any proof — but if you are
going to speak disproofs then you had better get that bull down and hog
tie it where we can all see you do it.

With what you have said so far, I don’t have enough info about where
you or your target are coming from to evaluate the accuracy of anything
anybody has said. Partially thats because ‘boomer’ didn’t provide said
info — but you could at least fill in the holes with something in the
way of formulae, number crunching and admitting of unknowns.

So far, its just been six rounds of making mole hills into
mountains and ignoring the fact that the alleged-mole (as in mole hill
maker) never offered anything in the way of proof of his mole-ness.
Only asking for a discussion on rodents in general.

(Wait, maybe I took the metaphor too far …)
– Randy E.

Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 04-05-2001 10:35 AM
Randy,
I posted the formula for the Schwarzschild Radius some time ago…but here it is again:
Rs= 2GM/c^2 where
Rs is the Schwarzschild Radius expressed as cm
G is the Newtonian gravitational constant (6.68*10^-8 gm^3/m/s)
M is the mass in kg
c^2 is the speed of light (3*10^20 cm/s)
As to the intensity of the gravitational field it decreases as the
inverse square of the distance. Basic High School classical physics.

Boomer did vigorously defend his device – but didn’t do so
rigorously. Between his posts here and on other sites he did offer some
general descriptions of how it works and its area of effect and posted
the photos and diagrams. If that is all the information that is
available then it becomes the sole basis for making assumptions. I’ve
tried to use minimum and maximum limits to arrive at some idea as to
how it could work. I’ve concluded that the base science behind the
device is somewhat valid but the engineering of the device renders it
unusable.

While Boomer was here (as I posted a while back) I offered some Red
Herring arguments to him as a cross-check on his knowledge and (more
important)to get him to defend his assertions by countering mine. It
seemed to be the only way to get him to expand on his otherwise
dismissive one-liner responses to inquiries. It’s an debriefing
technique than can be used once the debriefer concludes that the target
has his or her ego engaged. Boomer’s ego could be appealed to – and he
did get emotional at times. The technique isn’t used to anger for
anger’s sake. It’s used because one can get some unrehearsed answers.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-05-2001 11:48 AM
It is seeming quite clear to me that the only way to ‘time travel’
is to produce waves of energy that transport one back or forward in
time. I will not explain the mathematics of this, but I think it will
include Fourier Transformations Calculus Equations, and I will probably
never work on that, I have to leave that to someone else.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-05-2001 12:19 PM
Time travel is ‘wave surfing’ akin to what Albert Einstein
imagined, to me.

Posted by Randy Empey on 04-06-2001 12:25 PM
Darby:
One formula is a start.
“Basic High School classical physics” — is a body of
oversimplified indoctrination useful only in basic modeling and in
training young minds in the scientific method and modern science’s
version of problem solving.

When using the holdings of “BHSCP” to refute an allegation, one
must be aware of the limitations of “BHSCP”. Even if you can produce a
proof that an event doesn’t comply with the holdings of “BHSCP” the
event still could occur, if “BHSCP” isn’t completely accurate. And most
people I’ve dealt with concur that it is not.

This is like trying to object to the dynamics of the modern nuclear
powerplant based on the science of late 19th century european main
culture.

Perhaps we are a tad bit closer than all that, but we are still a
few yards short of being able to say what is possible and what is not.

But you might be refering to something I haven’t understood from your posts yet — so please keep elaborating.
I don’t think the schwartzchild radius is of as much importance
here as you imply — isn’t it reasonable to figure that the engineers
who build such a device would try to prevent the actual ‘nothing will
ever come back except maybe hawkin radiation’ event horizon from the
singularity from expanding beyond the housing mechanism? Why are you
positing such expansion as part of its operation? Couldn’t the results
be gained a diff. way?


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-06-2001 11:33 PM
I love the new instruments of this age. One of these would have to
be the new musical instruments, synthesizers. I have two of them.
Digital and programmable. They store little sample of waves from
different instruments recorded and digitized. I wonder sometimes if
I’ll have time to use them that much anymore. All these samples of
waves from different instruments all stored digitally, kept by battery,
and able to play a wide variety of different wave forms. Some musicians
would say that there is silence between the notes. Actually when
learning a new piece, one hits a lot of wrong notes. Sometimes, this is
the way that a new piece is created. If one hits enough wrong notes
trying to learn a piece, whatever is left that seems improbable
actually turns out to be a new piece. The interference wave pattern out
of the stereo with a correct stereo image then allows one to imagine a
new piece. All those wave harmonics add up to a pleasing form, unless
one hits a lot of dissonant waves.

I wonder.
Well, I guess I am dreaming.
I wonder after looking at those pictures again, if John’s time machine actually weighed 500lbs.
I see that he got on the Internet to England, still I wonder about that machine he claims to be a time machine.

Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-07-2001 02:35 PM
I am not liking what I am finding out here at the moment!
Gees, I found a couple of sites about some type of mathematics
about wavelets that is only 10 years old, so not that many books have
been written about it.
One is a non-technical explanation of whatever they are talking about, that is:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rpolikar/WAVELETS/WTtutorial.html
The other site is more math than I can remember and is almost about the same thing:
Fourier Transformations Calculus type stuff:
http://www.ics.org/MemOnly/senn/s3_06/FEATURE2.html
To much for me, but applications of this type math may have real concern here, well at least for me, until I lool at it better.
It is mentioned that this has application in engineering and physics, I think the one site, 2nd, is written by a physicist.

Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 04-07-2001 02:46 PM
Randy,
I’m aware that “BHSCP” isn’t completely accurate…that’s why I
qualified the answer, “…gravitational intensity decreases as the
function of the inverse square of the distance” with the reference to
classical (Newtonian) physics. I assumed that the reader would know
that classical physics has its shortcomings.

The importance of the Rs…
I didn’t choose the scenario here. Boomer did so…and he chose to
put it in terms of Tipler-based time travel. By choosing that scenario
he made the Schwarzschild Radius rather important, didn’t he? “Spinning
and skimming” (the event horizon) is the name of the game in Tipler
time travel. As Boomer has described the event, the field expands out
to him and pulls him in with a force of 2g. If it’s Tipler based then
he’s just outside the event horizon when he’s pulled in.

His device appears to be about one meter long, 25cm deep and 25cm
high. Let’s assume that you’re right and the engineers manage to keep
the event horizon contained inside the device (discounting that parts
of the device would still fall inside the event horizon as it expands
to the edges of the enclosure). Let’s say, therefore, that the
Schwarzschild Radius is 12.5cm (I assume the field to be centered
inside the enclosure). Boomer is seated in the driver’s seat. The
device is in the back seat (as described by Pamela). The device is
about one meter away from Boomer’s posterior and 1.25 meters away from
his anterior (spine to belly-button <wink>.
His back is about eight Schwarzschild Radii from the field and his
front is about ten Radii away. The front bumper of the truck (about
three meters away) would be 24 Radii from the field. This is far from
“skimming” the event horizon. I can only conclude that for the effect
to occur then the Rs has to expand out to Boomer and engulf the device
as it does so.

I can imagine one scenario that might avoid this effect. If the field
is initiated in the future and collapses into the past it would pull
Boomer in first and then pull the device in last. In this case Boomer
would leave without the device and, according to him, have a 2.5%
chance that the device would never reach him again. That is not how he
describes the event in any case.

[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 04-07-2001 at 02:49 PM]

Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-07-2001 02:51 PM
Well, I just do not know. I guess there is books written on this stuff, mainly by mathematicans.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 04-07-2001 04:00 PM
Darby,
tip number…7?
Don’t forget to leave the rear door open to vent the x-rays,
Don’t want it blowing a hole through it.
- Pamela

Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 04-07-2001 05:35 PM
Pamela,
ROFL – I forgot about the x-rays! Good thing Boomer really isn’t in
California. The DMV would fine him for excessive x-ray emmissions.

Imagine it – Time Traveler held in custody for EPA violation. Fails to return in a “timely” manner. Video at 11…
Have a good weekend, Pamela.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 04-08-2001 06:20 PM
Darby,
Something just struck me. I was thinking about the “event horizon”… The Schwarzschild Radius.
I know that according to conventional theory, when matter falls
into the event horizon, x-radiation is produced, and indeed some
astrophyscists have located what they believe to be black holes which
do this very thing.

What occured to me, was that this theory of using a
“microsingularity” and by injecting electrons into the Schwarzschild
Radius would indeed, produce a LOT of x-radiation.

Just for a comparison – of sorts, consider older televisions, built
in the 1960s… they produced a vast amount of x-rays. The way this
occurred was thus: a cathode ray tube (CRT – aka a picture tube) has
several thousand volts of electricity applied to it on the anode lead.
(That’s the red lead that goes to the back of the TV picture tube for
anyone digging in the back of one right now). That voltage was (in the
old days) roughly from 28 kv to 38 kv. At 32-35 thousand volts
(somewhere in there) the electrons inside leaving the cathode and
striking the phosphor screen hit with such “force” that it liberated
energy in the form of light from the phosphor. Further, x-rays were
released as well. The other place inside the TV that X-rays were
released was inside the “Diode” tube inside the high voltage power
supply.

Either way it was produced, it was measureable. In recent years…
since around the mid to late seventies, the voltages applied to the
CRTs in TVs and computer monitors have been reduced to the 20 thousand
volt level to prevent the production of dangerous x-rays.

What all this is getting at is that x-rays can be produced by
essentially small voltages, but then, if you are talking about
injecting electrons into the sphere of a black hole, then you can
produce xrays in the same manner.

I still find it unbelievable that a “microsingularity” could exist.
Here’s why. By the very defination of a singularity, it is implied
there is a HUGE mass, into which all matter near by is drawn. This
massive weight continues to grow in mass and gravity, thereby pulling
in yet more matter.

In other words, I can not fathom the existence of a
“microsingulaity” – a black hole of finite mass and volume (the size of
an electron) into which electrons can be “injected” to cause changes in
spin, fields or whatever.

While the theory holds some water – I don’t think it is enough to
explain away something like tipler cylinders, what would have to be a
severe gravitational mass in an enclosed container, nor the amount of
x-radiation that would be produced.

Since at this point, we don’t have enough knowledge of “physics” to
state emphatically that they CAN NOT exist, I can only say that they
probably do not exist. I’ve tried to convince a couple of physicists to
join up here, and try to explain what they know – but, they aren’t
willing to do so. They don’t have the time, energy or inclination to do
so I guess. I’ll keep trying.

Rick

Posted by Kevin Spooner on 04-09-2001 02:44 AM
If at the end of this thread our presumption is that the only way of
time travelling is to produce “waves of energy that transport back or
forward in time” then we may have gained very little.

I feel that we have yet to isolate what ‘waves’ of what ‘energy’ is
truly required as it would need to be able to negate linear time
somewhat like an accelerating rocket is used to negate gravity.

It seems to me as a basic principle that to counteract one agent
(e.g. time, gravity) you must replace it with an equal or greater
counteragent (e.g. rocket fuel/engine).

So what is the counteragent here and what mechanism would drive it?
Kevin = Time Travel 101: Basic fundamentals. Free to a good home.

Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-09-2001 02:31 PM
There’s a lot of hyperlinks in the Titor’s Prediction thread. Look
at it this way, if you can not build a time machine using “particles”
can you use a field that it creates to create waves of interference to
move through time. This wave stuff is more akin to the electro-magnetic
radiation. It is a way that is being discussed as taking over the
‘particles’ that physicists use now. Take that a ‘particle’ is only a
one short instance of what really is going on, that the ‘particles’ are
not really particles except when we freeze them in a moment of time by
camera and fast shutter speeds, when you look at the overall theory,
there are therotical physicists saying that the other physicists are
not taking into account the ‘totality’ of what is going on. That all
supposed ‘particles’ in the bigger whole are actually ‘waves’ of
electro-magnetic radiation. This phsyicist, David Bohm, is a protege of
Einstein. And according to all accounts of the way we see, the way the
brain works, the way everthing seems to work, is more akin (to explain
consciousness and everything) to ‘waves’. This is explained in the book
“The Holographic Universe”. Now this theory is not complete, and may
change, but physicists are acuseing other physicists of creating
particles because they can not see below the Planck’s Constant which is
where theory is at now. To build an Particle Accelerator to actually
see a ‘quark’ or smaller whatevers it would take all the monies of all
the tresuries of all countries and would have to be so big as to build
it out in space, or else to confirm anything they have to wait for a
space event to prove anything. Remember, below the electron, nothing is
seen, it is just theory. The Planck’s Constant is something like
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001 or 10 to the -39 power.
Humans have nothing that can get below that limit. So for a number of
years it has been all theory and not much can be proved, including even
Superstring Theory. It is all guessing at this point. This new
Holographic Theory explains more of everything like the real world, and
particles have nothing to do with it, just ‘waves’ of energy, which is
really what Einstein’s formula is really about. So if they can not see
below the ‘limit’ then who of the scientists are really ‘proving
anything’.

Look at the other topic thread for hyperlinks to websites that
explain some of the ‘new’ things (theories) starting to emerge.
Particle Physics can not explain consciousness. Therefore, some
scientists refute what they are doing.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 04-09-2001 02:59 PM
Now imagine that there are no ‘particles’ that what we preceive as
‘particles’ but are actually ‘forces’ coming together and splitting
apart continually, depending how anything interacts with the ‘forces’.
Now imagine that John’s TT machine is using ‘forces’ to change temporal
displacement or waves to create a interferrence pattern that develops
into a type wormhole thing that allows him to move through some type of
‘temporal displacement’ time.

This would use different type of formulas and different thinking
from ‘particle theory’ to an extent, if would be a combination of
‘forces’ to produce the required result.

Look in the other thread to read at some hyperlinks about different things.
Not that I believe that we can do this anytime some, but 30 years in the future, I do not know. (?)

Posted by Robert Roberts on 04-09-2001 07:10 PM Smile
We are here. The technology used is simple to the point of being
mundane. I can tell you know more of how it works or what is to come.
Just know we are here.


Posted by Robert Roberts on 04-09-2001 07:13 PM Unhappy
Forgive my error. I am weak. Should have read, “I can tell you no more of what is to come.” Again, forgive the error.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 04-10-2001 06:54 AM
So, Robert, you’re telling us you are yet another time traveler?

Posted by Pamela Moore on 04-10-2001 07:13 AM
How hard would it be to not be prepared for a time you entered like John said he was not prepared for 2000?
you might be surprised.
I had this dream while John was here. I am only sharing it in parts
because the dream made me realize it wouldnt really be that easy at
all.

Me and a friend of mine got dropped off in the middle of my city
back in time. We had to ask what year it was and not only the date
which people looked at us very strange.

then it dawned on me we could have looked on the newspaper at the newspaper stand!
We had no idea how long we were going to be there.
My friend pulled out money and said “I have 100 dollars!.”
I was happy until I saw 70 percent of it was the new money with the
big heads. I said “Great, we cant use that here! it looks like fake
money to the people of this time.”

I examined the money.. all of it had dates on it after the time we were in except one 10 dollar bill. “we got 10 dollars.”
I said. Then it dawned on me most clerks wouldnt look at the date
of the bill and we could probably pass off the older looking money to
eat with but the newer money would never work.

I was surprised at how very little I remembered about this time
period and was looking at the clothing people were wearing as we passed
them on the street.

I told my friend I couldnt really think of anything that happened
during this time because I was too young. My friend couldnt even
remember who the president was!

Then I was thinking while we were here I wanted to see myself.
We went to my parents house. I saw myself in the backyard I was
only about 7 or so. I was reading a book. I wanted to see what would
happen if I touched myself and I remembered in my dream John saying
nothing happens.I wanted to see for myself. I approached myself calling
out my name and extending my hand out introducing myself as her mothers
friend. she took my hand and I shook it and held on for a second at the
wonder of it all.I wasnt sure this was actually me.. I looked different
from what I remembered but she responded to my name and it was my
parents house. nothing happened… I was relieved.”what are you
reading?” I asked her. “science” she said. I looked at my friend and
laughed.”its me.”
My other self looked so different than what I thought I remembered looking like. I tried not to stare at her.

Off hand I couldnt think of anything to tell her she was too young. I
thought about all of the things in my life but would telling her make
any difference? It was weird seeing another part of yourself. you
kindof had compassion for it and cared for it. It was like seeing a
little sister or something and not your real self. I decided to say
nothing because she seemed happy.

And I was still shocked at just looking at her and thinking that
it was a younger me. Did I behave this way? was I like this? I couldnt
remember.

My friend decided they wanted to see their younger self also so we decided to take a bus.
I kept telling my friend we need to come up with a prediction or
something so people would beleive us. But we both had lack of info. I
thought about John in my dream and told my friend ” Now I know how John
felt! people were asking him who won the next hockey game and you can’t
even remember who the president was!” and we laughed.

We were thinking about how to convince my friends parents of who
we were. and if they would beleive us or not.and what were we going to
do if they didnt beleive us.

Since I pondered the thought that I looked a little different in
this time I also pondered wether anything I told people would actually
come true or not. I had no idea how far off this world was from my own.
the world seemed slightly different. and I remembered a major event was
more likely to happen than a trivial event… like ballgames won or
lost.

We took the long bus ride to my friends house and started talking
to the people on the bus who questioned our clothing. We finally ended
up telling the people about Mad Cow disease since I studied alot about
it after John had told me and I knew quite a bit to tell them.

One influential person said she would write her congressman right away and have it investigated.
My friend looked at me with a worried look and I told the lady
“Good!” because I was at a loss for words.”Maybe it won’t be in the U.S
then in the future,”

When we got to my friends house I was wondering if the father had
a computer.. I paused and looked at my friend. “the internet existed
during this time….right?”

I was thinking of all the wonderful inventions that I could tell
my friends parents would come in the near future. then I stopped myself
wondering how or if it would effect the worldline.

then I woke up! But the dream made me realize how difficult it
would really be if you were a real time traveler and you were not
prepared for the time you were in.

-pamela

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